Re: Ambien

thats happened to me a couple times taking ambien... i have a mess in my apartment and have no idea why the next day. especially in the kitchen! i just assumed i blanked out though... no intruders :D

Re: Ambien

what time is it here in saudi, shit i can use some ambien...

Re: Ambien

[quote=day_for_night;588119]happy to post more later. i've been doing research on this for years, scientific and anecdotal.[/quote]

Didn't mean to sound like as ass slamming the wikipedia reference. If you do have stuff, I would be interesetd in reading it.

Re: Ambien

I'd be interested too, dude.

Re: Ambien

ambien didn't do shit for me i'm on 2mg xanax to sleep

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[B][quote]Evidence for Permanent Damage and Dysfunction from SSRIs[/quote][/B][quote]

In the Wergerer study, the increased transporter density persisted for at least ninety days into the adulthood of the rats. Furthermore, theese seemingly [I]permanent[/I] abnormalities were found in the most highly devloped portion of the brain - the frontal lobes.

...

It is especially ominous, therefore that young animals develop permanent changes in the frontal lobes of their brains after even brief exposure to Prozac. Werger and her colleauges are to be commended for correctly pointing out the danger of giving SSRIs to children. It also indicates a potential danger to adults, since the brain retains its reactivity to drugs as long as it is alive.

....

Another recent study in [I]Brain Research[/I] has found that four days of high doses of Prozac and Zolofot, as well as other serotonin-stimulating drugs, cause marked changes in brain cells, including bodies of the cells and projections called axons. Prozac most commonly produced "large swelling" in the body of neurons. Zoloft produced "swollen and truncated" axons and in some cases made the neurons "corkscrew" in shape. the study voices concern about whether these injured cells could survive, but leaves the question unanswered. The authors suggest this damage could indicate the long term effect of chronic SSRI usage. [/quote]

These are a few excerpts from a book called [I]The Antidepressant Fact Book[/I] written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it [URL="http://books.google.ca/books?id=VL_rRllpjskC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=ssris+and+permanent+changes&source=web&ots=COSKc4FSBt&sig=3uWUnps_cr7mxXWW6UhXebkVB4k&hl=en#PPP6,M1"]here[/URL], and check the references to all of the journals he mentions. Its much easier to read something like this than it is some of the medical journals themselves, cause unless you've got a neuroscience degree, they tend to read like greek...

Re: Ambien

[quote=day_for_night;588227]

These are a few excerpts from a book called [I]The Antidepressant Fact Book[/I] written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it [URL="http://books.google.ca/books?id=VL_rRllpjskC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=ssris+and+permanent+changes&source=web&ots=COSKc4FSBt&sig=3uWUnps_cr7mxXWW6UhXebkVB4k&hl=en#PPP6,M1"]here[/URL], and check the references to all of the journals he mentions. Its much easier to read something like this than it is some of the medical journals themselves, cause unless you've got a neuroscience degree, they tend to read like greek...[/quote]

I don't want to sound all preachy but...

So, I looked at one of Dr. Berger's peer reviewed papers. [URL]http://breggin.com/suicidalityviolence.pbreggin.2003.pdf[/URL] I did this because, honestly, you can't rely on what is written in a book who's target audience is mainstream and is designed to generate a profit.

So, I think his arguement is not necessarily that SSRIs dont work, but rather, there can be dangerous side effects associated with them. People taking these drugs need to be monitored for changes in behavior. Which is a sound point to make.

Nowhere did I see him say however that these drugs are not effective and there use should be abolished.

I also want to point out that most of his references are case reports. Case reports are fine for reporting occurences of an event, but they cannot be used to gain insight into causality or relationships between variables. This insight can really only be gained from double blind controlled studies. In his list of 60 odd references I only saw reference to one double blind study...

[quote]Muijen et al. [60] conducted a six-week double-blind study comparing fluoxetine (Prozac), mianserin, andplacebo with 26, 27, and 28 starters respectively, and 14, 14, and 16 finishers respectively. Two of the fluoxetine patients “took an overdose within two weeks of starting the study, and in both cases this was related to a deteriorating clinical state that necessitated hospitalization” (p. 386). None of the patientsin the other drug group or the placebo group suffered from this decline and suicidality.[/quote]So, the fact that 2 out of 44 subjects took an over dose seems alarming. Sure. But just as alarming should be the fact that half the subjects dropped out of the study before completion. What does this say about the subject population? Further and more importantly, Berger only cites what he finds useful to his arguement. Elsewhere in that very same article...

[quote]...Suicidal feelings were reduced to a greater degree on fluoxetine than on mianserin and placebo at weeks 6 and 7...

..Significantly more patients on fluoxetine improved than patients on placebo... [/quote]So you are right, these books like Dr. Berger's are much easier to read, but they can often be manipulative and misleading. They have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Re: Ambien

yep, totally agree. just read the sources in his end notes.

Re: Ambien

[quote=day_for_night;588227]

These are a few excerpts from a book called [I]The Antidepressant Fact Book[/I] written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it [URL="http://books.google.ca/books?id=VL_rRllpjskC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=ssris+and+permanent+changes&source=web&ots=COSKc4FSBt&sig=3uWUnps_cr7mxXWW6UhXebkVB4k&hl=en#PPP6,M1"]here[/URL], ..[/quote]

from that link............Known as "the Ralph Nader of psychiatry," Dr. Peter Breggin....

:lol:

Re: Ambien

his sources aren't fake though...just an easy reference to alot of good studies. who cares if the guy is slanted. read the research for yourself.

you can't honestly think prescribing SSRIs for mild anxiety is rational...

Re: Ambien

[quote=threehills;588264]

So, I think his arguement is not necessarily that SSRIs dont work, but rather, there can be dangerous side effects associated with them. People taking these drugs need to be monitored for changes in behavior. Which is a sound point to make.

Nowhere did I see him say however that these drugs are not effective and there use should be abolished.

.[/quote]

i think we should all just agree to this point and move back to the vortex :)

Re: Ambien

I'm sold. Is this available over the counter?

Re: Ambien

[quote=e808;588338]I'm sold. Is this available over the counter?[/quote]

no, presciption only.

Re: Ambien

This is really disturbing! This drug is called stilnox here and has been responsible for deaths, both accidently while sleepwalking and apparently, particularly in adolescent suicides. Even though it is not recommended for kids it is being prescribed. Get back to your doctor as soon as possible and find an alternative!!! This was one of the drugs found in Heath Ledger's body. Extremely dangerous if taken with anything else.!!!! They are having to rewrite labelling!!

Re natural remedies I actually take 5htp. It works incredibly well for me. If you are getting a good result from melatonin Feather, it should work well for you! This is where I get it. [url]http://cgi.ebay.com/5-HTP-Griffonia-Simplicifolia-Migraine-Mood-Sleep-90_W0QQitemZ370040359853QQihZ024QQcategoryZ19262QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

They tell you this but just to reiterate,

DO NOT TAKE WITH OTHER PRESCRIBED MEDICATION!!

Day for Night Thank you!! :)

Btw It's not about abolishing any drug!! I'ts about getting the right ones that work for you !! People have enormous differences in this area. I have two friends that are very happy on a drug that sent me into an unbelievable downward spiral. Communicate well with your doctor! It is very important!

Re: Ambien

Oh yeah I used to take 5htp back in the day :D They gave me some vivid epic dreams.

Re: Ambien

^^^ thats more natural tho isnt it? more of a mood stabiliser type thing

Re: Ambien

5htp is the precursor to serotonin, which is what controls your mood and sleep patterns. serotonin is then converted in to melotonin, which assists in you being able to fall asleep.

yes its natural. you can get sources of tryptophan from things like bananas and turkey, which is then converted into 5htp (an intermediate step between tryptophan and serotonin)

the chain goes

tryptophan -> 5htp ->serotonin -> melatonin

Re: Ambien

Oh yeah I know all about serotonin ;);):D But didn't know serotonin converts to melatonin ... my interest stops at the happy vibes transmitter :D

Re: Ambien

Jesus how many of u lot take shit to sleep???

i thought i was wired!!

Re: Ambien

I'd give it all up for a spliff to knock myself out ... but no go over here.

Re: Ambien

be careful what u wish for!!

u may find yourself in a situation that u dont want to be in! ;)

Re: Ambien

Ok, back to topic....Last night was WTF...I ended up taking the ambien and after I felt it's effects, I went to bed...But, when I woke up, my cat was outside screaming to be let in (She is an indoor cat and hates it outside). A bottle of white was was empty (I hate white wine). Four other bottles of red wine had been poured out into a bowl in the sink..My bedroom lights were on when I woke up..I check my cell phone to see if I called anyone..Sure did..Called twice and showed up at my neighbors house asking to party, twice...I go over to my computer just now and find a bowl with a lighter next to it as well......I am a bit disturbed right now.

Re: Ambien

Yikes Lilsensa....Me thinks you should avoid that drug altogether. That would scare the crap outta me! There have to be alternative solutions for your sleeping problems. Have you considered seeing a naturopath?

Re: Ambien

WTF man ... get off the damn thing already. Probably suggested already but can't you have a spliff?

Re: Ambien

[QUOTE=lilsensa;594434]Ok, back to topic....Last night was WTF...I ended up taking the ambien and after I felt it's effects, I went to bed...But, when I woke up, my cat was outside screaming to be let in (She is an indoor cat and hates it outside). A bottle of white was was empty (I hate white wine). Four other bottles of red wine had been poured out into a bowl in the sink..My bedroom lights were on when I woke up..I check my cell phone to see if I called anyone..Sure did..Called twice and showed up at my neighbors house asking to party, twice...I go over to my computer just now and find a bowl with a lighter next to it as well......I am a bit disturbed right now.[/QUOTE] I thought I told you to go back to your doctor !! :x

Re: Ambien

bro, i'm telling you...zopiclone. you won't have these issues anymore.

Re: Ambien

lisensa you intake setup = hypnotic, depressant, and sediative.

Don't fuck with ambien dude it is a pretty powerful sleep aid. You should not need to smoke or drink to get the effect. Just wait 20 minutes and close your eyes. You should be fine. Also make sure you are eating your apple everyday.

Re: Ambien

^It's not a good combo...

Re: Ambien

^^^ It's not just the combo . This drug on it's own has really bad side effects for some people and it sounds like you are one of those people!! Remember you are NOT in control after you have taken it, you don't know what you will do!! I know I'm nagging but you seriously should be looking at alternatives!!

Re: Ambien

^^I hear ya dude..I'm gonna talk to my doctor in the morning.. I just got done talking to my neighbor and telling him that I'm not crazy and that I'm sorry..Glad he understood, or at least acted like he did, because this has bugged me all weekend.

Re: Ambien

[quote=lilsensa;594434]Four other bottles of red wine had been poured out into a bowl in the sink[/quote] :shock::what what the hell where u playing at?

[quote=lilsensa;594434]Called twice and showed up at my neighbors house asking to party, twice[/quote] :roflmao: lets hope it was dressed as party boy!!

[quote=lilsensa;594434]I am a bit disturbed right now.[/quote] no shit dude! get off this stuff asap!!!

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^^Worst part was when I had to ask him if I had clothes on when I showed up...Freaky shit..

Re: Ambien

^ :lol:

did u?

Re: Ambien

I was clothed..Fortunately.

Re: Ambien

[QUOTE=lilsensa;595060]^^Worst part was when I had to ask him if I had clothes on when I showed up...Freaky shit..[/QUOTE] :lol::lol::lol:

Re: Ambien

ambien + alcohol = bad news.

took ambien in a club one night with a friend after we had way to many drinks. my friend ran full speed into a wall inside the club. really nasty bump on forehead. i don't remember the circumstances, but i started smoking cigarettes that night after having quit for 7 full years (still smoking unfortunately). also, i lost my jeans that night. don't know how or why. there are many holes in my memory from that night. never again.

a joint never puts me to sleep, it just keeps my mind awake & thinking, but a few drinks or a six pack of heineken gets me to sleep just fine.

please get off the ambien. it is some bad news shit, bro.

Re: Ambien

[quote=thezzapper;595301]my friend ran full speed into a wall inside the club.[/quote]

:roflmao:

[quote=thezzapper;595301]i lost my jeans that night. don't know how or why. there are many holes in my memory from that night. never again.[/quote]

that will be the rophies! u come home with a sore arse aswell?? ;) :lol: