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Please someone help me out here... How exactly Does our justice system work?? I was just talking about this case here at work a couple weeks ago, because ever since first hearing of it back when it happened, it was the most disturbing of any case I can think of. IMO- The first verdict- Guilty was correct! There should have been no over turning the verdict & a 2nd trial! Argh! [IMG]http://www.tampahousemusic.com/emoticons/mad.gif[/IMG] I'm really upset about this situation... anyone who can Drown 5 children... not shoot with a gun- although horrible- that would be much less monsterly to imagine than holding all 5 of your children under water until they are no longer alive... [IMG]http://www.tampahousemusic.com/emoticons/sad.gif[/IMG] This case has just absolutely broken my heart! GOD BLESS those Children for what they went through!

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

Andrea Yates not guilty, NSync are Gay, what a sad day on Modern Day Earth

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

Doesnt make sense really....but u got to be insane to drown your own kids....she needs to be put in jail 4 life, not a mental hospital.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

This was very sad to hear, but I figured she would get off on insanity.

Hopefully she is locked away in an assilum somewhere so she can't harm anyone else

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

^^^^ except herself

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

that's fucked up!! I don't think that anyone can really relate unless you have kids. how could anyone do that to your own children?

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

there is something wrong with this world we live in.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

postpartum psychosis is real. Its rare -compared to postpartum depression - but it happens. this woman was clearly psychotic when she committed these acts.

being locked in a mental establishment is the best outcome for her.

very sad.

even her exhusband father of the children involved thought she was psychotic -and believed her not guilty.

Dont believe what TomCruise tells you!

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

road rage makes me crazy and psycho. It doesn't mean one is mentally unstable. She predicated the murders. She was going to drown them 2 months earlier but decided not to. She knew her eldest son would try and stop her. Basically, SHE KNEW WHAT THE FUCK SHE WAS DOING.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

you all need jesus

:p

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

dunk her ass

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

thats pretty damn fucked up!

Difficult to read into. you would have to be pretty messed up to drown your kids. so you could say she is mental. but then she could just be EVIL.

i say we save her soul and burn her to death. (just to be on the safe side)

Mwah mwah mwah!!!

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

what i dont get is that it took her over 20 minutes to kill all of her kids...

she drowned them one at a time and even had to chase some of the around because they were running from her knowing what was happening....

after the first one was killed and she was chasing the next and killed him...at some point doesnt she have to realize what she is doing...and that it is wrong....its hard to buy what the jury found....

according to the definition of insainity "a severe mental illness extant at the time the crime was committed such that the illness substantially impaired the defendant's capacity to understand and appreciate the moral wrongfulness of the act"

she had to realize at some point that this was wrong.. After the first one was killed and she is chasing her next vicitim...the morality doesnt kick in...she is still possesed by satan??

I dont buy the satan made her due it like the defense suggested...but the jury did....doesnt make any sense to me

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

I agree, to what you say Chuck, I mean her Maternal instinct of 7 years (is that how old her oldest was?) didn't kick in, her depression of a few years sure made her a whackjob.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=chuckc]she had to realize at some point that this was wrong.. After the first one was killed and she is chasing her next vicitim...the morality doesnt kick in...she is still possesed by satan??

[/quote]

if you are truely suffer from active psychosis -you dont suddenly stop thinking delusional thoughts- its not rational thinking; you cant suddenly decide that a thought or behavior is wrong; you are actively delusional - people who think they are jesus or satan TRUELY believe it when their thoughts are florrid. They lack insight into their psychotic states resulting in bizarre behavior (as with most illnesses there is some variation betwwen people and between phases of illness)

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=Huggie Smiles]if you are truely suffer from active psychosis -you dont suddenly stop thinking delusional thoughts- its not rational thinking; you cant suddenly decide that a thought or behavior is wrong; you are actively delusional - people who think they are jesus or satan TRUELY believe it when their thoughts are florrid. They lack insight into their psychotic states resulting in bizarre behavior (as with most illnesses there is some variation betwwen people and between phases of illness)[/quote]

if that was the case, why would she every weep during her trial, it must all seem like a dream toher right?

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

because poeple who suffer from psychosis arent always actively hallunicinating/delusinal etc - like I said there can be differne phases of illness - at times when they can get on with whatever life they have and have some sense of normalcy (there is nearly always residual effects though - it aint pleasant) and with some level of insight - and times when people are actively psychotic and experinceing thought disorders, delusions, paraonoid beleifs etc etc.

a person who commiteed a terrible deed when in an active psychotic phase can still feel remorse at a later stage (presumably after treatment with anti-psychotic drugs)

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

fucked up.... man I can't see Poultry being fixed, Imagine killing someone, someone who's a child, YOUR child, doing it 5 times in a row, and then decorating them on the living room floor,

lethal injection if I was the judge

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

this case is completely differnet to say Fred West (in the UK) or jeffry dahmer who tortured and killed for fun - - where they are psychopaths who get kicks from killing and display no remorse for their actions or really even acknowledge their victims as anything other than playthings/inanimate objects and lack any empathy fortheir victims etc;

this is a case of mental illness that needs treatment.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

^^^ with a lethal injection

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

on a slightly lighter note

• one of the news reports mentioned that she was wide eyed in court - like this was her natural reaction to hearing the testimony/verdict - however this is undoudtedly a side effect of being on some form of psyhopharm agent (probably dopamine related)

hehehe (I thought it was amuzing anyway)

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

regardless if you want to blame it on some sickness called "postpartum psychosis" the bitch deserves to die...take all those inicent lives to spend a few years in a mental hospital and then probably eventually go free.....it just aint right....

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

Chasing the kids around and have them look while their brothers/sisters get drowned? Fuck, I'm getting literally sick when I try to picture it, and no degree of insanity can explain this to me: that woman deserves death, or at least to be removed form society for the rest of her life.

Most mental illnesses are modern society side-effects IMO.

Fucking SICK!

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

Psychosis or not, I disagree with the option of an insanity plea when there are cases like this. If she is "insane" as it was ruled, then there should not Ever- no Never - be any chance for her to be seen through the courts for possible release while she's in an institution! If they are not going to send her away (which personally I don't feel like she even deserves that!) they should guarantee LIFE in a mental institution! If she's "insane" now then she is "insane" forever IMO! Ugh... Everytime I think about it it makes me :twisted:. I think situations like that is what Lethal Injection was invented for! Maybe this is a true case of postpartum psychosis, but that IMO doesn't give anyone the right to a life after taking 5 lives of children!

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=Yao]

Most mental illnesses are modern society side-effects IMO.

![/quote]

Absolutely incorrect. You are doing a diservice to all those who suffer the disabling stigmatizing effects of mental illness.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=CrazyMadFlyGirl]Psychosis or not, I disagree with the option of an insanity plea when there are cases like this. If she is "insane" as it was ruled, then there should not Ever- no Never - be any chance for her to be seen through the courts for possible release while she's in an institution! If they are not going to send her away (which personally I don't feel like she even deserves that!) they should guarantee LIFE in a mental institution! If she's "insane" now then she is "insane" forever IMO! Ugh... Everytime I think about it it makes me :twisted:. I think situations like that is what Lethal Injection was invented for! Maybe this is a true case of postpartum psychosis, but that IMO doesn't give anyone the right to a life after taking 5 lives of children![/quote]

lets hope you, your family and friends dont suffer from postpartum depression - cos thats quite an attitude to take. you really want to put your sister to death for the effects of chemical inbalances due to the massive hormone changes a woman goes through during labor and birth?

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=Huggie Smiles]lets hope you, your family and friends dont suffer from postpartum depression - cos thats quite an attitude to take. you really want to put your sister to death for the effects of chemical inbalances due to the massive hormone changes a woman goes through during labor and birth?[/quote]Tears and snottering is one thing, killing 5 kids is another thing. Postpartum all you want, but if that was really the reason, how come that there aren't cases like this every month?

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=KinKyJ]Tears and snottering is one thing, killing 5 kids is another thing. Postpartum all you want, but if that was really the reason, how come that there aren't cases like this every month?[/quote]

bcause postpartum psychosis is pretty rare; psychosis/mental illness is far more common than you might think - but most people who develop psychosis/schizophrenia suffer dibilitating thought processes-hallucinations/delusions etc but do not harm anyone (they are more likely to harm themselves). Men are more likely to develop schiphrenia in their late teens/early twenties (some earlier) - for women the most common onset for schizophrenia is mid-late 30's.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

I think our justice system is ridiculous. If something like this happened to you, I am sure you would want that person dead, just like those innocent little kids. The need to implement the cast system they have in eastern countries!!! An eye for an eye,,,,, This has broken my heart!!

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=yelena] The need to implement the cast system they have in eastern countries!!! ![/quote]

hahah - so your born into one level of society and can never get out of it!! great plan. why dont you just re-introduce slavery while your at it!

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=Kamal]if that was the case, why would she every weep during her trial, it must all seem like a dream toher right?[/quote]

insanity of convenience perhaps

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

Redrum !!!! I think insanity was a gimme ???

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

if they could prove, really prove, that this was directly related to a post-partum mental state and was never to return, then i suppose the verdict is fair, since it would be an isolated incident of psychotic behavior identified with a specific mental chemical state following pregnancy. however, this seems extremely implausible. the extent of the premeditation and the crimes don't justify an isolated psychotic episode; they signify a disposition towards psychosis. in keeping with the idea of prison and the death penalty being ways of protecting the public from dangerous individuals, i see no reason why the defendant has any right to a continued public existence, given that her behavior is likely wont to appear again.

psychosis should not be viewed as a reason not to incarcerate/execute individuals; rather, psychosis is one of several reasons people commit crimes, so it should be a key reason in their apprehension. if we begin to consider the mental states of violent individuals and their causes, then we have no way of determining where guilt lies. there is no mental condition that does not have its utmost cause in something outside of the individual's control; hence, one can argue that a past of violence and abuse absolves individuals of responsiblity when they commit crimes because they had no choice. similarly, one can argue (and they do) that mentally unstable individuals have no control over their mental states; hence, they cannot be held liable for any damages incurred when they are experiencing an episode or are otherwise incapable of making "normal" rational judgements. this reasoning can be carried to the furthest degree, absolving any possible criminal behavior.

obviously, what this does is short change any hope of personal responsibility. instead, individuals must be held accountable regardless of their upbringing or mental state or any other factor which may influence generally normal behavior. the only exception is in cases where intent could not possibly be construed, such as accidents, or cases of self-defense.

if for no other reason, defendant should be killed to spare the lives of other possible victims.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=sammwalk]if they could prove, really prove, that this was directly related to a post-partum mental state and was never to return, then i suppose the verdict is fair, since it would be an isolated incident of psychotic behavior identified with a specific mental chemical state following pregnancy. however, this seems extremely implausible. the extent of the premeditation and the crimes don't justify an isolated psychotic episode; they signify a disposition towards psychosis. in keeping with the idea of prison and the death penalty being ways of protecting the public from dangerous individuals, i see no reason why the defendant has any right to a continued public existence, given that her behavior is likely wont to appear again.

psychosis should not be viewed as a reason not to incarcerate/execute individuals; rather, psychosis is one of several reasons people commit crimes, so it should be a key reason in their apprehension. if we begin to consider the mental states of violent individuals and their causes, then we have no way of determining where guilt lies. there is no mental condition that does not have its utmost cause in something outside of the individual's control; hence, one can argue that a past of violence and abuse absolves individuals of responsiblity when they commit crimes because they had no choice. similarly, one can argue (and they do) that mentally unstable individuals have no control over their mental states; hence, they cannot be held liable for any damages incurred when they are experiencing an episode or are otherwise incapable of making "normal" rational judgements. this reasoning can be carried to the furthest degree, absolving any possible criminal behavior.

obviously, what this does is short change any hope of personal responsibility. instead, individuals must be held accountable regardless of their upbringing or mental state or any other factor which may influence generally normal behavior. the only exception is in cases where intent could not possibly be construed, such as accidents, or cases of self-defense.

if for no other reason, defendant should be killed to spare the lives of other possible victims.[/quote]

you're actually advocating the killing of people who suffer from mental illness!!!

errrr...thats what the Nazi's did!

:( :( :(

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

^^ Looks like he nearly made a phd thesis out of an issue thats out of anyone's control and nearly know one will read

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

is that soft talk for the threads gettin locked??? hahahaahaa :)

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

lmao... no just found it amusing Sam decided to get right into the nitty gritty of it

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

not advocating the persecution of those with mental illness, just advocating the elimination of those who have demonstrated that the extent of their illness allows them to kill. whether it's in their "control" or not shouldn't be a factor because there's no clear way of determining proximate cause.

and if you don't want to read it, don't. but complicated issues can't be summed up in a few sentences.

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=sammwalk]not advocating the persecution of those with mental illness, just advocating the elimination of those who have demonstrated that the extent of their illness allows them to kill. whether it's in their "control" or not shouldn't be a factor because there's no clear way of determining proximate cause..[/quote]

well said.....

Re: Andrea Yates found NOT Guilty!????!

[quote=Huggie Smiles]lets hope you, your family and friends dont suffer from postpartum depression - cos thats quite an attitude to take. you really want to put your sister to death for the effects of chemical inbalances due to the massive hormone changes a woman goes through during labor and birth?[/quote]

My comment about lethal injection was harsh...my apologies if it came across as my encouragement for murder of another person. But it makes me wonder... Who is the death penalty appropriate for if not for someone who could Drown her own kids??? (all 5 of them) Just for the record I had a very dear girlfriend of mine suffer with severe postpartum depression, but never with any psychotic behaviors or episodes. I also do have a very close family member who suffers from a form of mental illness, so I am very familiar with that side of things. I feel Yates' case was very severe and also premeditated... and I feel she deserved nothing less than LIFE in prison! :roll: