Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
oh, and for the record he swung at me first.....
[ms] · Est. May 2002
Music madethis place,we just kept itgoing...
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So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
79 durable postsStarted 2006-02-20Latest 2006-02-22
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley]all i ask is if you're going to spin out for money buy your music...[/quote]
WORD!
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=jarble187]
ichrang, I think you missed the point of Geoff's rant. This music shouldnt be stolen blatently from Soulseek. The opening Dj should of gave these producers the respect they deserve by purchasing these tracks from an authorized retailer like Beatport or Release. [/quote]
I think you guys missed my point... I personally always pay for my songs... vinyl or downloads... ive been doing this since 2000 when I first started.
My point was... who cares as why would you even ask. Let the DJ do his thing and you do your thing. NOT - this is the copyright infringement police...time to kick your arse.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
^^^^^ you are missing the point, the guy was a totaly prick!!!!!!!!
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
ok...i dont want to get caught in a your missing my point....no your missing my point debate....no , your missing mine.
I agree he was a prick,
but it sounded like someone was more peeved at getting upstaged then stealing songs
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=ichrang]I think you guys missed my point... I personally always pay for my songs... vinyl or downloads... ive been doing this since 2000 when I first started.
My point was... who cares as why would you even ask. Let the DJ do his thing and you do your thing. NOT - this is the copyright infringement police...time to kick your arse.[/quote]
come on now... you never dj'd with someone, heard a kick ass tune and asked who it was or where he got it? and the whole blow up came well after the party had ended... not during.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley]come on now... you never dj'd with someone, heard a kick ass tune and asked who it was or where he got it? and the whole blow up came well after the party had ended... not during.[/quote]
yes...i have many times... ive heard soulseek quite often. i personally dont get pissed.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
OK...just to quote myself..this is my ONLY point.
[quote=ichrang] I agree he was a prick,
but it sounded like someone was more peeved at getting upstaged then stealing songs[/quote]
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
"yes...i have many times... ive heard soulseek quite often. i personally dont get pissed."
that's because apparently you have no personal stake in it.... and/or it's not your livelyhood as it is mine and most of my friends. point is said dj got paid $300 for playing stolen music. it's wrong period. for the record, i don't make it a point to ask/pester a dj about his or her's music. this was a weird one off situation that got way out of hand.... glad to hear you buy your music though.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
i havent read all the posts in this thread, but if you havent already done so, post this guys name so we can all berate him publicly for being a theiving asshole.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley]oh, and for the record he swung at me first.....[/quote]
I didn't catch that in your first post or later ones. If he swung at you first then you shouldn't feel too bad because you were protecting yourself. I'd only feel bad that it escalated to where there was a fight.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
wouldnt say i woulda have fought him, but he is a major prick. dont feel bad, he is an assface
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley]oh, and for the record he swung at me first.....[/quote]
Well in that case thats a whole different situation. I though you hit first. In this case you really should have given him a beating. ;)
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley]"yes...i have many times... ive heard soulseek quite often. i personally dont get pissed."
that's because apparently you have no personal stake in it.... and/or it's not your livelyhood as it is mine and most of my friends. point is said dj got paid $300 for playing stolen music. it's wrong period. for the record, i don't make it a point to ask/pester a dj about his or her's music. this was a weird one off situation that got way out of hand.... glad to hear you buy your music though.[/quote] arguments for or against the morality of using freely downloaded tracks are irrelevant. the technology is out and people are going to exploit it. its being right or wrong doesn't change the fact that people will do it. unless there is something that deters this sort of behavior, it will not stop. since it won't stop, it will become normal. actually, it already is. and no dj is forced to divulge where he/she gets their music nor asked to pay royalties when they play it.
anyway, being a dj and attempting to become popular playing other people's music is already questionable. it's not stealing, but it is, in many ways, taking credit for the work of others. so this moral high ground of "buying" instead if "stealing" is pretty shaky if you ask me.
the comments about the quality of music downloaded (<320kbps) will be obsolete once file transfer rates increase to the point of being able to download whole songs in .wav format, which is upon us now.
this just represents a fundamental change in the entire realm of intellectual property. i think that the propagation of free music technology (like Soulseek) puts more pressure on artists to add something to their live performances that can't be captured in a song.
finally, remember that the music industry and "superstars" and getting rich, etc. is only a recent 20th century phenomenon. music used to be something people would make very little money on, even if they were masters. so, in a way, we may be returning to an earlier state of affairs.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
^^^well put.
MP3 file sharing has been going on for many years...before MP3 there was MP2 and MPEG itself; all the technology did was create a better compression/file size ratio since hard drive space was at a relative premium back then.
Some said Napster revolutionized things; it didn't revolutionize the technology, it just took sharing and made it widely available to the masses who had barely a clue how to get stuff like this (those who knew through BBS, FTP, IRC & Usenet's knew)...once that happened, others merely followed suit.
I wouldn't worry about that kid anyway; it sounds like he barely gets gigs anyway as is...it's not so much the fact he gets his music all the time off of Soulseek, but if he's a prick and all high about it, then he won't get very far...
Besides Soulseek is so yesterday anyway...I get my fresh music elsewhere :lol: :lol:
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=FM]Besides Soulseek is so yesterday anyway...I get my fresh music elsewhere :lol: :lol:[/quote]
...such as?
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=sammwalk] anyway, being a dj and attempting to become popular playing other people's music is already questionable. it's not stealing, but it is, in many ways, taking credit for the work of others. so this moral high ground of "buying" instead if "stealing" is pretty shaky if you ask me. [/quote]
no offense, but i think thats pretty far from the truth. a good dj doesnt just play other people's music, they create something more than the sum of the parts to a set. there in lies the talent in being a dj. no one in their right mind pretends to take credit for someone elses work, and the way we prove we're not is by PAYING the person who made it. its a sign of appreciation, and if you can you thank the shit out of them for producing a killer track. no one who knows anything about the dj business should think otherwise.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=day_for_night]no offense, but i think thats pretty far from the truth. a good dj doesnt just play other people's music, they create something more than the sum of the parts to a set. there in lies the talent in being a dj. no one in their right mind pretends to take credit for someone elses work, and the way we prove we're not is by PAYING the person who made it. its a sign of appreciation, and if you can you thank the shit out of them for producing a killer track. no one who knows anything about the dj business should think otherwise.[/quote]
Yes I agree with this statement. It's simple, without producers there are no DJ's and without DJ's there will be no producers..... to an extent...... and if a DJ is getting paid for playing other people's music then it is only right that those "other peoples" get paid as well??
It's not about moral high grounds, it just about morals.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=day_for_night]the way we prove we're not is by PAYING the person who made it. its a sign of appreciation, and if you can you thank the shit out of them for producing a killer track.[/quote]
people do not spend money on music because they are "paying tribute" to the artists involved. they pay for it because that is the way the market is set up. if human nature was such that even low income people would pay tribute for things they liked even if they didn't have to, then all good products would be free.
i give my money to coca-cola not because i think they deserve tribute for having good soda, but because it's the only way to get the soda out of the machine.
not to mention the fact that most dance music contracts are paid up front, so the money spent on the records never gets to the artist anyway, but that's not the point.
[quote=day_for_night]no one in their right mind pretends to take credit for someone elses work[/quote]
i beg to differ. many djs act as if they are creating what they spin and become known for it, like Oakie or Tiesto. if we're going to accept this behavior, we will accept piracy. both are cases where credit is not being given, but the artist's music is still being heard by in the clubs, and thus permeating a larger audience.
sooner or later, people are going to realize that this industry has been permanently and irrevocably changed. right or wrong, that's the way it is. sorry.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=rhipkin]Yes I agree with this statement. It's simple, without producers there are no DJ's and without DJ's there will be no producers..... to an extent...... and if a DJ is getting paid for playing other people's music then it is only right that those "other peoples" get paid as well??
It's not about moral high grounds, it just about morals.[/quote]
no, no morals at all, just supply and demand. now there is a free supply. simple economics.
DJs and producers aren't going anywhere because we love to do what we do. music piracy is just a fact of life now. of course it's fair to get paid for what you do- i'm not saying it isn't. i'm saying that, since it's virtually impossible to force people to stop pirating, that we need to roll with the punches. we need to adapt.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=sammwalk]no, no morals at all, just supply and demand. now there is a free supply. simple economics.
DJs and producers aren't going anywhere because we love to do what we do. music piracy is just a fact of life now. of course it's fair to get paid for what you do- i'm not saying it isn't. i'm saying that, since it's virtually impossible to force people to stop pirating, that we need to roll with the punches. we need to adapt.[/quote]
Yeah I'm afraid that is very true too. I really try to buy all my music, I still do about 80% of my gigs on vinyl so I do buy tons of music - but every so often when I know I'm running out of time I'll download what I need and play it off CD until the batch arrives.... so I'm guilty of pirating music from time to time - who isn't? :) But I always try give back, I guess its just a personal thing and all... :)
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley]oh, and for the record he swung at me first.....[/quote]
well u have ever right to defend yourself...so the loser got what was coming....
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[IMG]http://www.filmbespreking.be/fight%20club6.jpg[/IMG]
Nothing like a little John Courage to the rescue!
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=sammwalk]and no dj is forced to divulge where he/she gets their music nor asked to pay royalties when they play it.[/quote]
Dont know if you saw the controversy that surrounded EBTG when Hummer used one of their tracks on a commercial- Taken from EBTG's site-
"Hello everyone. We would like to point out that the currrent TV commercial in the US for [COLOR=#fdc590]Hummer[/COLOR] that uses our cover version of 'Love Is Strange' was put together [COLOR=#fdc590]without our knowledge or consent[/COLOR]. Unfortunately Warner Music UK control our early 90's recorded performances and agreed that the track could be used. It is common courtesy to inform the artist and listen to any objections when something like this happens. We were not contacted by Warner Music UK.
"Fortunately if the artist also writes the song, they can put a stop to things by refusing to allow the publishing copyright to be used. Unfortunately in this case, we did not write the song and therefore could not block it on those grounds. "We are deeply concerned that our music has been used in this way. It is something we would [COLOR=#fdc590]never have condoned[/COLOR] had we'd been given the choice. "We are currently in lengthy legal discussion with Warner Music UK. We would have spoken out earlier but needed to clarify our position. We will make our final position clear and issue a statement in due course. Best always," Ben and Tracey
Do you think it was a dick move by Ben Watt to ask for royalties even though he and Tracey did not write the song? This is just one instance of a producer not liking the way his music is being used. I think we will see more of it if things like in this topic continue to occur.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
sammwalk, thanks for your perspective and i appreciate your input... you're spot on in all of your points. i guess in the end what i'm trying to say is that "morals" and "right or wrong" aside i'm still going to be one to stand up for what i believe. if i have to stand alone then so be it. yes, piracy is a fact a life but that doesn't mean i or you have to accept it and/or participate in it because others are doing it and it's "impossible to force people to stop". i don't rob banks or gun people down because other people do it. it fairly safe to say that type of behavior, aside from being very illegal, is frowned upon by the masses. I don't steal music and saying it's "virtually impossible to stop" and "we need to adapt" says, in my mind, that it's ok to do... it's not, period. we can't stop it so turn a blind eye and accept it is, in a way what's being said. i don't, won't and never will feel that way and many others on this board do as well. i don't care if you're a dj, a edm lover, you only put it on your ipod or in your car or whatever. everytime you download something via p2p that has been officially released and is readily available to purchase you're taking money, [U]as little as it may be[/U], away from the producer/act, many of whom are not dj's. and i'm sorry, to the people who use p2p because they can't get a particular tune because it's unreleased and they want it now and then they'll "buy" it when it comes out... [B]fuck off[/B]. there's a reason you don't have it now and that's because [U]you don't deserve to have it.[/U] that's why sasha and diggers and howells and every other top dj gets the music first before the masses. anyway.... enough of this rant, i've been getting pissed off and saying the same thing for over 4 or 5 years now and your right sammwalk, it's not going to change..... but it still doesn't make it right.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[QUOTE]everytime you download something via p2p that has been officially released and is readily available to purchase you're taking money, as little as it may be, away from the producer/act, many of whom are not dj's.[/QUOTE] I heard God kills a kitten every time you do it
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
^^ i'm so going to hit you in miami..... i mean, buy you a beer....
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
either way it better floor me :twisted:
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
I'd just like to chime in and say I have no opinion on the subject.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
we are all involved i another topic now about the stole/borrowed/len/etc. music but if thats the case, i have to admit most of the tunes i play are "free", i do rarely download music from beatport and that kind of sites. the point here is that i do this (play "free music") cause i have no big conections in this bussiness and how the fuck could i get any good conections if im in a small town in mexico. its really really hard to get conected around here, in fact its allmost imposible... if you want some good music you have to look for it the way you can, and the answer usually is slsk or dc++ or some p2p software so i dont know if im being clear here, but thats only my situation, i cant talk for everybody.
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
^ you don't need "good connections in the business" the only connection you need is a connection to the internet, which you obviously have...so go SHOPPING.
(don't make us send Geoff to mexico to find you.)
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=sammwalk]arguments for or against the morality of using freely downloaded tracks are irrelevant. the technology is out and people are going to exploit it. its being right or wrong doesn't change the fact that people will do it. unless there is something that deters this sort of behavior, it will not stop. since it won't stop, it will become normal. actually, it already is. and no dj is forced to divulge where he/she gets their music nor asked to pay royalties when they play it.
anyway, being a dj and attempting to become popular playing other people's music is already questionable. it's not stealing, but it is, in many ways, taking credit for the work of others. so this moral high ground of "buying" instead if "stealing" is pretty shaky if you ask me.
the comments about the quality of music downloaded (<320kbps) will be obsolete once file transfer rates increase to the point of being able to download whole songs in .wav format, which is upon us now.
this just represents a fundamental change in the entire realm of intellectual property. i think that the propagation of free music technology (like Soulseek) puts more pressure on artists to add something to their live performances that can't be captured in a song.
finally, remember that the music industry and "superstars" and getting rich, etc. is only a recent 20th century phenomenon. music used to be something people would make very little money on, even if they were masters. so, in a way, we may be returning to an earlier state of affairs.[/quote]
I totaly agree wit cha...technology is out there for us to use....In my opinion as Dj's its never about the money, but about the music...its always about the music!!!....if I produced a track and found out someone was playing it....I wouldnt care if they bought it or got it for free from P2p....I would just be excited they were playing it....and most of all that they liked it....As a Dj I love EDM...and love that I can bring this type of music to the masses...regardless if its free or bought...Do I get paid for Gigs...yes...But its for the set and atmosphere I create with the music I play.....remember.....Its all about the music and the love of it....never the money.....;)
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
It's about the chicks not the money! [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/_feather/damn.jpg[/IMG]
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley]sammwalk, thanks for your perspective and i appreciate your input... you're spot on in all of your points. i guess in the end what i'm trying to say is that "morals" and "right or wrong" aside i'm still going to be one to stand up for what i believe. if i have to stand alone then so be it. yes, piracy is a fact a life but that doesn't mean i or you have to accept it and/or participate in it because others are doing it and it's "impossible to force people to stop". i don't rob banks or gun people down because other people do it. it fairly safe to say that type of behavior, aside from being very illegal, is frowned upon by the masses. I don't steal music and saying it's "virtually impossible to stop" and "we need to adapt" says, in my mind, that it's ok to do... it's not, period. we can't stop it so turn a blind eye and accept it is, in a way what's being said. i don't, won't and never will feel that way and many others on this board do as well. i don't care if you're a dj, a edm lover, you only put it on your ipod or in your car or whatever. everytime you download something via p2p that has been officially released and is readily available to purchase you're taking money, [U]as little as it may be[/U], away from the producer/act, many of whom are not dj's. and i'm sorry, to the people who use p2p because they can't get a particular tune because it's unreleased and they want it now and then they'll "buy" it when it comes out... [B]fuck off[/B]. there's a reason you don't have it now and that's because [U]you don't deserve to have it.[/U] that's why sasha and diggers and howells and every other top dj gets the music first before the masses. anyway.... enough of this rant, i've been getting pissed off and saying the same thing for over 4 or 5 years now and your right sammwalk, it's not going to change..... but it still doesn't make it right.[/quote]
i think we see eye to eye inasmuchas we think that downloading is wrong.
but, from a business POV, it is unfair that you or i pay for music when it's free for someone else. for us not to acknowledge the impact of illegal downloading is to create artifical market force in the form of deciding not to when others are. when others profit from something like this, the people who paid responsibly are punished. and as i said before, if it is (most likely) something that can't be stopped, then we have to make do.
and finally, here is my solution: write your own music and be the first to play it live. then you'll never have anything to worry about. :D
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=shosh]It's about the chicks not the money! [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/_feather/damn.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
Nice Crown, all hail the ummm king? :shock:
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
Where have all the good warm djs gone?
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=sammwalk]...such as?[/quote]
private services that I do pay for...I look at it this way: you can spend TONS of time searching, downloading, bitching at cutoffs, etc. on Soulseek and the like, or you can get it through paying services, other shops, trades, etc. and pay for most of what you get...and maximize your time shopping and listening.
Besides, anyone who just uses Soulseek (like probably said example in the beginning) is still limiting themself: some place (or someone) is always going to have some track faster then some other place (or someone) and not every place is going to have every track...besides time is relative; I've played stuff that I've seen show up in Mark Farina's sets months later...does that make me a "better" DJ because I might have gotten that track first? Hell no; there's so much stuff coming out in this day and age that there's no way one can keep up with it.
[quote=3d_1200]the people that don't support the scene don't last long and have no real future. Yea, maybe they will get some small scale gigs and perhaps even get a big $50 for the night, but when they try to advance further then that they will fail because they never showed support to anyone and nobody will be there to support them. While they are frustrating, your sense of pride should have taken over and realized you were a better person in general and wasting your time with such ignorant people only drags you down to their level.[/quote]
short of the fact that he swung at you first, this kid sounds like the above...I'm wondering though how Victor booked this one...never was mentioned
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
[quote=geoffgulley] my friend victor had seen him spin at a party in houston and really loved his music. the dj in question told victor he was hooked up with a bunch of producers and got "promo's" from them all the time etc, etc...[/quote]
^^that's for you fm.....
Re: So I had myself a fistfight at a gig....
ahhh ok got him confused with the other one...makes sense now.
Ok kids the moral of the story is check a DJ's references before booking :CrackUp::CrackUp:
he won't go very far...