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3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

30 durable postsStarted 2010-01-07Latest 2010-05-22
#79003Post 1 of 30

[CENTER] [B] Television Begins a Push Into the 3rd Dimension [/B][/CENTER]

[IMG]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/01/06/business/06tele_CA0/popup.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2u62qzq.png[/IMG]

ESPN shot an Ohio State football game in 3-D in September. The network is starting a 3-D channel in June.

It was more than half a century ago, in a 1955 episode of “The Honeymooners,” that Kramden, the parsimonious bus driver played by [URL="http://movies.nytimes.com/person/27204/Jackie-Gleason?inline=nyt-per"]Jackie Gleason[/URL], told his wife, Alice, that he had not yet bought a new television because “I’m waiting for 3-D.”

The wait will soon be over. A full-fledged 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States, as manufacturers unveil sets capable of 3-D and cable programmers rush to create new channels for them.

Many people are skeptical that consumers will suddenly pull their LCD and plasma televisions off the wall. Beginning at around $2,000, the 3-D sets will, at first, cost more than even the current crop of high-end flat-screens, and buyers will need special glasses — techie goggles, really — to watch in 3-D.

But programmers and technology companies are betting that consumers are almost ready to fall in love with television in the third dimension. In part, it could be the “Avatar” effect: with 3-D films gaining traction at the box office — [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/james_cameron/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]James Cameron[/URL]’s “Avatar” surpassed the staggering $1 billion mark last weekend — companies are now determined to bring an equivalent experience to the living room.

Anticipating this coming wave, [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/espn/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]ESPN[/URL] said Tuesday that it would show World Cup soccer matches and [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/national_basketball_association/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]N.B.A.[/URL] games in 3-D on a new network starting in June, and Discovery, [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/imax-corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]Imax[/URL] and [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/sony_corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]Sony[/URL] said they would jointly create a 3-D entertainment channel next year. The satellite service DirecTV is expected to announce its own 3-D channels at the [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/i/international_consumer_electronics_show_ces/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier"]International Consumer Electronics Show[/URL] in Las Vegas, where every major television manufacturer is planning to announce 3-D televisions and compatible Blu-ray DVD players on Wednesday.

“The stars are aligning to make 2010 the launch year of 3-D,” said John Taylor, a vice president for LG Electronics USA. “It’s still just in its infancy, but when there is a sufficient amount of content available — and lots of people are working on this — there will be a true tipping point for consumers.”

At that point, the question becomes whether consumers — many of whom have only recently upgraded to costly new high-definition sets — will want to watch in three dimensions enough to pay for the privilege. “I think 90 percent of the males in this country would be dying to watch the [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/super_bowl/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier"]Super Bowl[/URL] and be immersed in it,” said Riddhi Patel, an analyst at the research firm iSuppli. But will the experience translate to other entertainment? Ms. Patel said, “You don’t necessarily want the ladies of ‘The View’ sitting around you when you watch them.”

For most consumers, 3-D is still far in the distance. With the announcement this week, the media companies are trying to place themselves at the forefront of an emerging technology, much as they did for HDTV a decade ago.

It took high-definition television about a decade to catch on — to the point where it has become part of the entertainment mainstream, with an adequate stock of HD programming and the sets now cheap enough to entice middle-class buyers. Analysts expect 3-D television to go through the same curve, initially attracting first adopters for whom price is little or no object and gradually moving out to other affluent and then middle-class homes as sets become cheaper and programmers create enough 3-D fare.

Or, of course, the technology could be a total flop.

For decades 3-D was a gimmick for B-movies and occasionally on television (in bad quality with flimsy paper glasses), but newer technology has largely erased those memories. Peter M. Fannon, a vice president at [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/matsushita-electric-industrial-company-ltd/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]Panasonic[/URL], called the new sets “totally different than what one had seen over the last 20 to 30 years.”

In 3-D, television makers see an opportunity to persuade households that have already bought HDTVs to return to the electronics store. Though television sales jumped 17 percent in 2009, the industry needs new innovations to keep the cash register ringing.

“Three-D is an effort by the industry to come up with something that will motivate consumers to trade up,” said Van Baker, an analyst at Gartner Research.

[URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/jeffrey_katzenberg/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Jeffrey Katzenberg[/URL], chief of DreamWorks Animation, said producers were preparing “an enormous surge in 3-D content, with images that are truly beautiful on these new monitors.” Leading the charge to television, the pioneering sports network ESPN said it would show at least 85 live events on a 3-D channel starting in June. “The sports genre is probably the best suited to exploit this technology,” said Sean Bratches, an executive vice president at ESPN. The company has held preliminary talks with [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/comcast_corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]Comcast[/URL] and other operators about gaining distribution; the 3-D channel could come at an added cost to subscribers. It will go dark when not showing live events.

The joint venture among Discovery Communications, Sony Pictures Entertainment and the Imax Corporation will be a full-time channel featuring natural history, movies, sports, music and other programming.

New 3-D televisions, like the 3-D screens in theaters, work by dividing picture images into two sets, one for each eye. A viewer must wear special glasses, so each eye captures a different image, creating the illusion of depth. Filming entails two connected cameras, one for the left-eye image and the other for the right. Manufacturers have developed two technologies for 3-D glasses in the home. In so-called polarized glasses, which can cost under a dollar, each lens blocks a set of images transmitted in certain types of light. “Active” glasses, which are better suited for LCD screens in particular, have battery-powered shutters that open and close rapidly, so each eye sees different views of each frame. These glasses can cost up to $100, but television makers are expected to package at least two pairs with each monitor.

On the horizon is technology that allows people to watch 3-D without glasses, but that has severe limitations, like forcing viewers to sit at a certain distance.

Mike Vorhaus, the managing director of new media for Frank N. Magid Associates, a media consulting firm, said 3-D was many years away from widespread adoption. For now, he said, it is “one more appetizer” for consumers who “already have a lot to digest.”

Indeed, a number of hurdles remain, including a lack of production equipment and dueling 3-D transmission standards. But backers like David Zaslav, the chief executive of Discovery Communications, say 3-D is bound to gain attention because consumers and producers are always striving for what looks “closest to real life.”

[IMG]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/01/06/business/media/06teleGrfx/popup.jpg[/IMG]

[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/business/media/06tele.html?ref=technology"]source[/URL]

#1319901Post 2 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

screw 3d. i dont think its that cool. :/

#1319904Post 3 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

^some people find SED tv's more of an exciting new technology.

[B]SED = Surface-conduction electron-emitter display[/B] [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wATx4KjECDA[/YOUTUBE]

[B]What's an SED TV?[/B]

SED televisions are a type of flat panel display. Each pixel is displayed as an individual phosphor-based cathode ray tube. They use smaller versions of a CRT to display color per pixel. This allows these types of TV to be slimmer than their larger counterparts and more like LCDs or plasma televisions. Many believe that SED TVs also use less electricity to run because of their compact design.

This technology was developed by Canon in the late 1980s. They begin the research in the field and partnered with Toshiba to begin mass production of SED TVs in 2005. However, this goal was not met. In 2006, though, Toshiba did demo several SED prototypes to members of the Consumer Electronics Show. Again, Toshiba and Canon partnered up to produce these types of televisions for consumer purchase. They should begin release in late 2008 if all goes according to plan, even during their absence at the 2007 CES in Las Vegas, according to Toshiba.

[B]SED Next-Generation Flat-Screen Display - Live Demo[/B] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxv7mmKHRhs[/youtube]

[B]Specs[/B]

SED TVs use surface conduction electrons to produce light over a thin set of electron tunnels when exposed to voltage. When the electrons pass through slits in the tunnels, they are put towards the surface of the display when electrified. Ink jet technology is used to spray phosphors onto glass to display the picture. They are very similar to a traditional CRT TV. One electron gun, so to speak, fires the phosphors that create the digital image produced.

SED essentially uses a bunch of "small CRTs," so to speak, to create its picture. These are called surface conductors. They are microscopic and have a slit down the center where light can pass through. When one part of the carbon layer interacts with a negative electrode, the other side connects to the positive electrodes. Each matrix controls the different colors, red, green or blue and a single pixel of picture. The picture is created equally distributed this way to create a single picture that is clear, crisp and bright.

Any pixel area of the screen that is not being used is black, and this adds to the contrast of the overall picture you are viewing. It also helps cut down on the contrast from light in a room. When the SED TV receives a signal, it decodes it first then distributes the phosphoric colors where they are needed where black then fills in the empty spaces. The vacuum then activates the right sequences and they distribute it to the screen so that you have a picture.

These types of TVs are expected to last more than 60,000 hours during accelerated tests. As long as the phosphors stay in tact, the television will continue to produce a vibrant color scheme and contrast. These types of results should be taken with a grain of salt, but if they are any indication of the future of SED TVs, it may prove to be a worthwhile investment. In comparison to a CRT model, which uses one electron gun that scans side-to-side, it can get bulky the larger it gets. SEDs do not need to be built like that, and this allows for a thinner and more manageable display the larger it gets. CRTs also wrap the end of the the display wheres an SED would not.

When it comes to comparing a SED to a traditional LCD display, latency is one of the biggest disparaging points. LCDs have always had a latency problem, but most TVs also have one, it is just not as noticeable. In order to update the picture, a TV generally needs 16 m/s of speed to keep a 60 Hz screen updated so that the picture does not lag. A SED uses one m/s of speed to update the picture; lag is non-existent. Since LCDs use a beam of directional light, this can cause problems due to viewing angles and when the axis is off center. This causes a slight lag that over time can disrupt viewing. Since SEDs use self-illuminated phosphors, lag time does not exist in any way that would cause problems continuously viewing

LCDs, however, do not have to worry about burn in whereas a SED does. Burn has always been a problem for plasma displays, because the use of phosphors being displayed in the same place over time causes the color to burn itself into the screen permanently. This can be avoided if your television is taken care of, but over time, burn in naturally occurs the more you use your TV. This is one of the major pitfalls of a SED-type TV.

[IMG]http://www.sed-fernseher.eu/images/canonSED.jpg[/IMG]

#1320511Post 4 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

interesting! Just purchased the Avatar Real D glasses few days ago plan on doing 3d video clips myself :D

#1320522Post 5 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

This still isn't 3D tho, is it? I mean if I'm looking at the front of a box on my screen, for example and I move my head to the left, I'm not going to see the side of the box, am I?

Pointless imo.

#1320558Post 6 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

^with the glasses it will be...you're thinking of holographic 3d projection.

#1320604Post 7 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

Yes I know. Think thats my point. It will still fool your brain temporarily but once you realise you can't see around the thing it deadens it.

#1354999Post 8 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

anyone excited about the 3d video games that are about to come out?

[IMG]http://technutnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/3dglasses-432x300.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/ps3-3d-113.jpg[/IMG]

[LIST] [*][B][SIZE=3]PS3's new 3D mode captured on video, coming in 2010 to all existing games[/SIZE][/B] [/LIST]

[LIST] [*][B][SIZE=3]Last week, video game icon Nintendo Co. Ltd. ([URL="http://www.dailyfinance.com/quotes/ntdoy/nys"]NTDOY[/URL]) let the world know of its plans for a 3D-capable portable gaming device. And despite all the hullabaloo over 3D technology in the flat screen TV market, this could very well be the first real connection between 3D entertainment and a viable consumer market.[/SIZE][/B] [/LIST]

Avatar saw big success in the box office due to its 3D experience, and related companies like producer/distributor News Corp. ([URL="http://www.dailyfinance.com/quotes/news-corporation/nws/nas"]NWS[/URL]) and theater operator IMAX ([URL="http://www.dailyfinance.com/quotes/imax-corporation/imax/nas"]IMAX[/URL]) got a lift. Many companies are hoping they can provide a similar experience in the home and cash in off expensive new hardware for home theaters.

NTDOY has already unveiled efforts to make its handheld Nintendo DS console an educational tool for schools and museums, and this move into 3D is another "outside the box" move as the industry leader tries to gain greater market share. With a track record of experimentation and innovation with its Wii console and Wii Fit hardware, NTDOY is very well suited for this move.

And on a broader note, the video game industry is the most natural fit for 3D technology for a number of reasons.

First, video games are a $20 billion business with an audience that is willing to spend big on hardware. We recently learned that February video game sales were a bit disappointing, but that's because a lot of hardware demand was sated over the Christmas holiday shopping season. When new gadgets come out, you can expect loyal video gamers to spend on the latest technology for the best gaming experience. Secondly, unlike television video games have more potential for 3D technology to actually enhance the experience. While some sporting events like the Final Four are experimenting with 3D, a lot of programming just doesn't work in the same way. Can you honestly tell me that the evening news, a soap opera episode or American Idol would be that much more compelling in 3D? Video games have more movement, more action, and more potential for the new technology.

Lastly, 3D technology for TVs involves glasses for nearly all brands right now -- and different manufacturers demand different specs. That means for a family of four, everyone needs a pair of glasses. And as glasses get lost or broken, you have to keep buying them. But the tentatively titled 3DS from Nintendo wouldn't need 3D glasses, and Nintendo's plan to [URL="http://www.investorplace.com/experts/jeff_reeves/nintendo-ntody-apple-aapl-ipad-dsi-video-games.html"]increase the screen[/URL] size on its DS console will make it a true 3D experience without any added glasses or gizmos.

Surely other video game stocks will come out with 3D technology soon. Though Sony Corporation ([URL="http://www.dailyfinance.com/quotes/sony-corporation/sne/nys"]SNE[/URL]) video game hardware seems to be fading, the company is slowly developing its own wireless motion technology akin to the Wii and will likely jump on this bandwagon next. Same goes for Microsoft Corporation ([URL="http://www.dailyfinance.com/quotes/microsoft-corporation/msft/nas"]MSFT[/URL]) and its Xbox console.

3D isn't much of a gamechanger for HD-TVs just yet. People are watching and waiting to see if devices will ever live up to the hype or just be a very expensive passing fad. However, the one area where 3D may have a lasting impact is the video game industry, and Nintendo is first in line to cash in.

#1355065Post 9 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

Not specifically looking for a 3D tv but I'm going to end up getting one simply because the latest generation update of the Plasma model I'm looking to buy has 3D built into it.

[url]http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panasonic+-+VIERA+/+50%22+Class+/+1080p+/+600Hz+/+3D+Plasma+HDTV/9764162.p?id=1218169464796&skuId=9764162[/url]

great reviews.

#1355067Post 10 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

3D tv would be really annoying. 3D gaming would be awesome.

#1355068Post 11 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

[QUOTE=Jenks;849234]3D tv would be really annoying. 3D gaming would be awesome.[/QUOTE]

Nvidia have been doing 3D for about 10 years. Used to get my Quake on with some red/green glasses but I think the technology might have moved on a bit since then...

#1355135Post 12 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

[QUOTE=Kamal;849230]Not specifically looking for a 3D tv but I'm going to end up getting one simply because the latest generation update of the Plasma model I'm looking to buy has 3D built into it.

[URL]http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Panasonic+-+VIERA+/+50%22+Class+/+1080p+/+600Hz+/+3D+Plasma+HDTV/9764162.p?id=1218169464796&skuId=9764162[/URL]

great reviews.[/QUOTE]

Seems like a helluva lot of tv for the price, nice find/tip Kamal, do want :D

#1355184Post 13 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

[QUOTE=Jenks;849234]3D tv would be really annoying. 3D gaming would be awesome.[/QUOTE]

QFT. If there was a TV I was looking at (like Kamal), I'd be more interested but I'm not going to go out and purchase another flat panel just to have 3-D. Honestly it's overrated. Until I don't have to wear the special glasses, it would be more of a hassle then it is worth.

#1355288Post 14 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

yea I'm not really looking for a 3D TV (you won't catch me wearing shades at home anytime soon) but since we got the house and are looking for a TV for the master bedroom, it just so happens that the V series upgrade I'm going to get has 3D built in. Isn't a feature I'm looking/shopping for.

#1356218Post 15 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

I am curious to see how the 3D will look when its not intentional, like it is in movies currently. For example, ESPNs upcoming 3D channel. How will it look when its every day stuff and not some director saying stuff should be flying out of the screen "here here and here."

#1362662Post 16 of 30

3D Television

I'm unfortunately in the market for a new TV right now. Went to look at some sets over lunch, and saw a couple of those new 3D sets they have. I'll tell you what, that is some impressive shit, leaps and bounds beyond the old-school red-and-green glasses thing. Full color, high-resolution, and an incredible illusion of depth. They're frankly not even all that unreasonably priced, either, considering...

Biggest negative as I see it is the fact that you still have to wear glasses for the effect to work. I don't care how cool it is, I'm not going to want to sit in my living room with a pair of clodhopping glasses on my face every time I'm watching TV. That raises another issue -- if you have people over to watch the game or something, every person has to have a pair of $150 glasses, or the image is basically unwatchable. I love my friends and all, but that's a lot of coin.

Anyone have one yet? I'm thinking I might wait for the next TV purchase before I pull the trigger on this, give them some time to iron the kinks out and make sure that TV and movie studios actually make content for it...

#1362664Post 17 of 30

Re: 3D Television

May want to merge these [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?80315-3-D-television"]2 threads[/URL]?

#1362706Post 18 of 30

Re: 3D Television

:oops:

#1362730Post 19 of 30

Re: 3D Television

yeah i'm not into wearing headgear when trying to watch television. 3dTV to me is incredibly dumb. As 90% of the television and movies I watch are all from the past.

#1363182Post 20 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

threads merged..... toasty what's your budget? Go for the Panasonic V20. You can't go wrong with that sucker. If you wait a little while, they've purchased/licensed the technology from the Pioneer Kuro's and rumours abound, they will implement the technology into the V Series to protect the screens from doubling blacks (something that's been doing Pannies in right now.

#1363187Post 21 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

I think it´s cool to watch some movies on 3D, but really don´t see the point of watching everyday shows or sports in 3D. I saw Avatar 3D and after 3 hours I felt my head was upsidedown. Is there any chance that watching 3D TV everyday could cause some sight issues? headaches?

#1363635Post 22 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

I think it's got some possibilities - but much like how HD tv changed a lot of production methods (ie makeup, lighting, etc), 3DTV is going to have to rethink a lot of the way things are shot. Sporting events especially - think about how jarring it would be whenever you watch an NFL game and some official or person on the sidelines walks through the frame.

Also, I can see it being applied to some television programming, but there's still a lot of shows and programming that wouldn't gain much from 3D - how many peeps would want to watch sitcoms like 2 and a Half Men in 3D?

I see the biggest gains for this format in video games (like the 3D graphics cards you're seeing sported on some high end gaming rigs), spectacle/special effects heavy home viewing movies/shows and some of the more nature oriented stuff, but I'm unsure of it being a dominant format for all time. I think it'll be more like a nice option to have. But the tech still has to come a lot further - the picture looks really blurry and shitty when there's a lot of camera motion involved, or a lot of motion onscreen. Give it a few generations for it to be improved and hopefully perfected.

#1363751Post 23 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

I bought a LCD TV last year so I doubt I will buy another one in the next Years. But I am sure when it's time to buy a new one, it will be a 3D television. This year I saw Avatar in 3D and it was my 1st 3D experience since the late 80ties with the sucking red/green glasses lol. The 3D technologies they use now are much much better and I really enjoyed watching the movie in 3D. I am sure it will be awesome to do the same at home with chosen movies or maybe football games as well. Gaming in 3D should be fun of course too. :p

#1363759Post 24 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

:lol:

First one went on sale in the UK yesterday: £1799 for the TV; £300 for a capable player; £200 for the glasses and the only thing you can watch right now is Monsters vs Aliens. I'm so on it. :lol:

#1363760Post 25 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

It's always like that when new standards come out. You have the technology but no real use for it lol. I think that's something for people with too much money on their hands who need to be first with something. I am also sure that the 2nd or 3rd generation of 3D TV's or players will have much more features and work more convinient. The first people who buy it are always beta testers for the new Technology.

#1363880Post 26 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

i saw avatar and alice in wonderland both in 3D and didn't think the experience was all that amazing. it kinda hurt my eyes from focusing all the time. i also noticed that different parts of the screen were not always in focus

#1364861Post 27 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

[QUOTE=CircleUP;855950]i saw avatar and alice in wonderland both in 3D and didn't think the experience was all that amazing. it kinda hurt my eyes from focusing all the time. i also noticed that different parts of the screen were not always in focus[/QUOTE]

I had the same experience. I watched a Christmas Story in 3d and Avatar and both gave me a headache and even a bit nauseous.

#1372408Post 28 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

Since the time the television came into existence, nobody would have ever thought about having a 3D one some decades later. But with the change in the technology and the speed it is evolving I think that it would be not be long before the 3D technology would be led by a more advanced technology. Though the 3D TV seems to be an interesting concept but the cost factor seems to be something that would require some further clarification.

#1373254Post 29 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

Avatar didn't give me a headache or anything, I thought it was excellent... aside from physical side-affects though, the same doubts were made about black & white television moving to color :lol:

Besides, society has voted $3 billion Avatar was kind of a hit.

#1373263Post 30 of 30

Re: 3-D television turf war is brewing in the United States

i just want a regular led tv :D haha jesus ive had seen some led tv from samsung and jesus they look awesome......i have a 32inch samsung tv and it look pretty good, but a led tv jesus....aside from that im not into 3d stuff....hope they figure it out on how to exclude those annoying glasses ......

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