OK, following up on this thread [URL="http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37084&highlight=vista"]here[/URL], I assume that a number of folks have it now and have some thoughts on it. From the outside looking in, I guess I'm not really seeing the big draw. There are some cool aesthetic changes in the way windows open and the way you cycle through open windows that you see in every single demo out there, but I assume that I'd get tired of that after a while and it hardly seems like enough to justify changing to a new OS that hogs resources like it does.

For those of you that have had it for a while, what are some of the lesser known features? Anything really cool?

Re: Thoughts on Vista

Hmmm. Tbh, after I'd installed Vista I'd probably end up doing what I do with XP/2000 and thats tweak it to buggery and find ways to strip out all the crap I don't need to load up/run and what not. Then end up running it in "classic" mode. So looking like Windows 2000 which will make it zip along.

I'm finding 2GB as a recommendation for running an operating system a bit hard to swallow. The fact that software developers will still be supporting XP (and even 2000) for a long time yet makes justifying the move to it difficult to do. I don't have a DirectX 10 card so DX10 is not a draw for me.

Increased security is not a concern for me. I'm good with that anyway.

Once I buy my new system and decided what I'm going to put in it I'll more than likely get Vista to go with it. But its more a matter of course than because I really think I need to have it.

Haven't talked it up too well there. :lol:

Re: Thoughts on Vista

To answer your question, NO. Vista has nothing major on the front end which you might find useful. MS put away a shit load of features to the backburner (including a completely re-written file-system) in order to release it within the time-frame they claimed.

The new file system will include some serious performance gains, searching, file storing, security, etc. but as of now, other than the embedded media center into the OS, a flashier front end and a little more stability and security (than XP), in addition to few benefits if run on a laptop with flash drives (quicker sleep/wake functions), there's not much immediately noticeable for the front end for most users.

Moreover tons of hardware out there is scrambling to release new drivers for the OS and MS is also rumored to have already started development on SP1 which, if true, is a real shocker considering the OS is not even out yet and instead of just issuing bug fixes via Windows Update, they are rolling out an entire Service Pack.

If you have a spare PC to fuck around, yea Vista is good to install only to get the hang of it and see what its about, if you are looking to install it on a regular daily use machine, at this stage DONT. Its not stable and you will not notice anything immediately useful other than a shiny new skin. XP is your friend until. Moreover, the longer you wait to go to Vista, you will find more and more software manufacturers releasing updated Vista compatible versions in addition to more new freeware coming out in the near future (right now you'll be hard-pressed to find anything useful to work with Vista).

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[quote=Kamal;446629]MS put away a shit load of features to the backburner (including a completely re-written file-system) in order to release it within the time-frame they claimed.[/quote]

Mmm, another thing I was looking into. According to a few sites I was reading, this was due in the next version of Windows in 2009. Can't see that happening myself. That's one of the main things that was making me consider skipping Vista and sticking with XP until the next version is released.

The move from FAT32 to NTFS was probably the main thing which changed the whole experience of using Windows. That and far more enhanced networking features in Windows 2000. Just like XP before it Vista is just another extension of 2000 (imo, of course).

Re: Thoughts on Vista

yea the new file-system and file-storage was going to have a sql engine (iirc) making searching, indexing and file saving on a unified level but not entirely sure of how it was supposed to work or what they planned. I guess there's some tech info out there which might highlight it.

I think a worthier upgrade which has been in the shadows is actually upgrading to Office 2007. SICK!!!

Re: Thoughts on Vista

Hmm. That's kinda what I was afraid of, thanks for the input. I need to get a new box (although it will not be my primary computer) and saw this on craigslist nearby:

[QUOTE]Intel Pentium 4 2.8Ghz (3 year warranty from intel) 2Gb ram 250GB SATA 7200 RPM drive 10/100 Network card Sound Blaster live 5.1 Sound card DVD Rom DVD-RW AGP Video card Wireless network card Silver case with see through side & lights

Currently running Windows Vista Ultimate. I will reload Vista to ensure system is running and for your evaluation.

Serious offers only. Do not send me a lowball offer, serious offers only.[/QUOTE]

Dude wants $500 for it. Part of me thinks it sounds like a pretty darn good deal, and part of me thinks it might even be too good of a deal -- the OS alone isn't too much less than that. Regardless, though, I'm not eager to buy any new computer if Vista is actually going to drag me down -- I'd rather just buy something from TigerDirect where I can still get XP SP2.

Any wisdom from those of you that know more about such things than I?

Re: Thoughts on Vista

for $500 with a SATA HD, 2 GB Ram and Vista (am assuming its a licensed copy), that is one fuck of a steal. Even the OEM version of Vista Ultimate runs for for $199 on New Egg. So you're basically getting the rest of the PC for $300. Which isn't bad at all. Plus the DVD Burner (though old) is at least another $50 odd bucks.

What are you looking to do with this machine ? Turn it into a DVR ?

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[QUOTE=Kamal;446661] What are you looking to do with this machine ? Turn it into a DVR ?[/QUOTE]

Nah, I am replacing one that I hook up to a big screen I have in my place. The TV has a PC input, so it's very easy. My wife and I use it if we're surfing the net for something together -- I've got a wireless keyboard and mouse, so we can do our thing from the couch.

Also, I've got a hard drive with MAME/Daphne/other emulators loaded onto it that allows me to play pretty much every arcade, NES, SNES and Sega Genesis game ever made using this thing:

[IMG]http://www.slikstik.com/images/class_bak.jpg[/IMG]

So that's hooked up to this system as well. Playing Dragon's Lair and other arcade classics on a 62" widescreen is pretty cool, I gotta say. 8)

I'll probably load it up with tunes, too.

Re: Thoughts on Vista

yes then for that purpose this machine is plenty (dont know the specs on the vid card but for what you said above, should be ok).

I have mine connected to the TV too but S-Video is just not doing it justice so I'm gonna get an HDMI cable for it to see the diff in quality. I find it cumbersome using the wireless keyboard and mouse in my living room, what do you use for the mouse ?

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[QUOTE=Kamal;446676] I have mine connected to the TV too but S-Video is just not doing it justice so I'm gonna get an HDMI cable for it to see the diff in quality. I find it cumbersome using the wireless keyboard and mouse in my living room, what do you use for the mouse ?[/QUOTE]

I've never really had a problem. I use a Logitech EX110 Cordless Keyboard and Mouse and it works just fine. I wouldn't want to type anything of great substance because it is a bit awkward having it on my lap as opposed to sitting on a desk, but for casual web surfing, it does great. Biggest challenge was finding a surface the mouse would work on, but I discovered that if I just use the mouse on the couch itself, it works great. It is an optical mouse, though, and I suspect a regular mouse might not work as well.

Re: Thoughts on Vista

lmao I have had the exact problem with the optical mouse and have the same solution

viva-le-sofa :lol:

I am using 800x600 screen size for my TV and I cant even surf MS clearly. I defo need grab that HDMI cable today

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[QUOTE=Kamal;446697] I am using 800x600 screen size for my TV and I cant even surf MS clearly. I defo need grab that HDMI cable today[/QUOTE]

You'll thank yourself immediately -- there is no comparison between a digital connection and S-video, as I'm sure you're well aware.

Ironically, some people that are into the arcade emulation thing will use an S-Video connection with a TV rather than using a computer monitor because the loss of signal results in a screen that looks less clear and, therefore, more arcade authentic. I say fuck that, give me the sharpest picture possible... :D

Re: Thoughts on Vista

LMFAO @ S-Video connection. Why don't you go composite as well? LMAO. Sorry. Just know the specs. behind that shit and it's quite laughable. Poor souls that bought into that hype. Did you make the purchase? I'd be weary of craigslist for something like that.

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[QUOTE=beanzncheez;446835] Did you make the purchase? I'd be weary of craigslist for something like that.[/QUOTE]

I sent the guy an email asking for more info, and I haven't heard anything back yet. I'm a bit skeptical, too, so I'm not doing shit until I actually test the thing in person and confirm that it has a valid license for Windows.

Craigslist is great for some things, but there is a high flake-out rate in my experience. Gotta insist on doing everything in person with craigslist, IMO

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[QUOTE=Kamal;446641] I think a worthier upgrade which has been in the shadows is actually upgrading to Office 2007. SICK!!![/QUOTE]

How is Office 2007? Will it run on XP?

Re: Thoughts on Vista

no reason why it shouldn't. It looks spectacular and has some really nifty features. I went to a Microsoft Camp locally and they said when they were developing Office 2007, they interviewed a shit load of people (in the thousands) and a majority of them said they didn't use about 80% (or more) of the features of MS Office. Reason being there were too many menus and sub menus that made it hard to remember where the features/functions were located and a naming convention for features that most couldn't relate to.

As a result, Office 2007 pretty much did away with menus. The only menus you see are the first level on top such as "File", "Text", Cells" etc. Clicking each of them actually displays icon based buttons of the sub menus that were originally in place in previous versions of Office.

Oven better now is the XML based file-saving for easy sharing of data between various products of the Office suite and even saving your shit in 100% web compliand html files. Built in "standard" Adobe PDF features allows you to create and edit PDFs.

The only downside is that the XML based documents and spreadsheets in office 2007 format are not backward compatible. But you do have the option to save in the older formats.

Couple of screenshots of word and excel below

Re: Thoughts on Vista

So I got a HDMI to DVI connection and connected my PC to my TV. Holy mother the resolution change from S-Vid to Digital was just a little more than drastic. I couldnt believe how vibrant the colors became and resolution changed from being barely readable at 800 x 600 to crystal clear at 1170 x 900 (yea its a weirdly stretched cause I have a wide screen TV).

But the biggest problem is that I have a single HDMI input which my DVD player is already using. So unless I can find a cable that allows me to connect 2 to 1, I'm gonna end up going back to S-Video.

Any suggestions ?

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[url]http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=HDMI+DVI+switcher&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=title[/url]

Re: Thoughts on Vista

cheers for that.... I've been on google all morning trying to find a solution that's not over 40 - 50 bucks.

Re: Thoughts on Vista

OK, never heard back from that dude on craigslist -- must have already sold it, I guess. I've moved on to Plan B, which is the following system:

[QUOTE]HP Pavilion Media Center a1620n PentiumD 925 3GHz 1GB 250GB (refurbished)

Relevant Specs:

PROCESSOR PentiumD 925 (P) DC 3.0 GHz 800 MHz front side bus

MEMORY Memory Installed 1 GB Maximum allowed 4 GB* (4 x 1 GB) Speed supported PC2-4200 MB/sec Type 240 pin, DDR2 SDRAM

HARD DRIVE 250 GB SATA 3G (3.0 Gb/sec) 7200 rpm

MULTIMEDIA DRIVE 16X DVD(+/-)R/RW RAM (+/-)R DL LightScribe drive

VIDEO GRAPHICS Intel 945G Integrated graphics

DIGITAL MEDIA 9-in-1 Memory card reader USB interface

SOUND

Integrated High Definition audio Realtek ALC 888 chipset Supports up to 8 audio channels Dolby Pro Logic II compatible

EXTERNAL PORTS Front: 9-in-1 (4 slot) + 1 USB One 1394 One USB Two Headphone One Line-in One Microphone One

Back: PS2 (keyboard, mouse) Two (one each) Parallel One VGA One USB Four 1394a One LAN One SPDIF out (coaxial) One SPDIF in One Audio (side speaker out, rear speaker out, center speaker out, line-in, line-out, microphone) One Each

OPERATING SYSTEM Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005

TECHNOLOGIES Viiv Vista Capable[/QUOTE]

This one's for sale on uBid. What do you think is a reasonable price on it? Buy it now is $553, I've currently got a bid in at $351. If the auction price starts to climb and the price is within the range of reason (which it seems to be, to me), I might just pull the trigger and get the thing now rather than waiting out the bidding process. There are 7 available, BTW...

Re: Thoughts on Vista

I wouldnt touch it for more than $400 and that too if he throws in an actual video card with it. That integrated graphics crap is restricted to Laptops - cant believe that shit crawled into a desktop. And to top it all of, its refurbished ? lmao beanz if you read this, I bet my $92 for 220 GB HD is pretty good init :lol:

Re: Thoughts on Vista

:shock: good to know. Guess I'll be pulling to be outbid, then... ;)

Oh well. It's an extra computer anyway.

Re: Thoughts on Vista

Toasty, you can get a pretty solid desktop from Circuit City online - I'm in the market for a laptop myself and I've been watching Circuit Citys specials for a few weeks now. Check this

[B]$769.99

[/B] Processor type - [URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28"][/URL] Core 2 Duo Processor speed - [URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28"][/URL] 1.8GHz

RAM - 2GB 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200) RAM expandable to: 4GB Hard drive size -[URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28"][/URL] 320GB Hard Drive Speed - 7200RPM Burns DVDs - Yes

   Ethernet - Yes
   Operating system - Windows? Vista Home Premium 

(edit - didnt realize this sucker has embedded vid card too but its a brand new machine and dual core at that)

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[QUOTE=Kamal;447839]Toasty, you can get a pretty solid desktop from Circuit City online - I'm in the market for a laptop myself and I've been watching Circuit Citys specials for a few weeks now. Check this

[B]$769.99

[/B] Processor type - [URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28"][/URL] Core 2 Duo Processor speed - [URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28"][/URL] 1.8GHz

RAM - 2GB 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200) RAM expandable to: 4GB Hard drive size -[URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28"][/URL] 320GB Hard Drive Speed - 7200RPM Burns DVDs - Yes

   Ethernet - Yes
   Operating system - Windows? Vista Home Premium 

(edit - didnt realize this sucker has embedded vid card too but its a brand new machine and dual core at that)[/QUOTE]

One kinda ironic thing, though, is that I'm actually better off without a dual-core processor. I'll be running MAME off of it, and although 95% of the games will run on any old shit, some of the newer games really slow to a crawl on anything slower than 2 gHz. Because MAME can't take advantage of the dual-core processor, though, it's performance would be limited to the speed of one of the cores. At least that's what I understand.

My decision could be made for me if no one outbids me :lol:

Re: Thoughts on Vista

Oh, BTW, is there any sort of benchmark out there for comparing the speed of dual core processors with single core? I know that it isn't as simple as just doubling the speed of the dual core. Would be helpful from a comparison standpoint...

Re: Thoughts on Vista

there's several benchmarking softwares out there. And from personal experience, I can assure you that dual core processing will chew any P4 inside out. I setup a 3.2 ghz P4 and a 1.g GHZ Dual Core machine (in the same afternoon) on our network and installed the standard software that our company uses in addition to the regular antivirus etc. Dude installation time on the Dual Core was 1/3rd of the time of the P4.

I mean the gain was significant enough to motivate me to considering buying a dual core laptop

Re: Thoughts on Vista

[QUOTE=toasty;447832]:shock: good to know. Guess I'll be pulling to be outbid, then... ;)

Oh well. It's an extra computer anyway.[/QUOTE]

Good news, was just outbid!

Re: Thoughts on Vista

poor soul who's gonna snag it

Re: Thoughts on Vista

I don't see the problem with getting a motherboard with intergrated graphics. I could so with one right now as that'd be one less cost I'd have to worry about (for the initial outlay anyway). Then when I have come cash, get a PCI-Express card.

Re: Thoughts on Vista

for a desktop ?

Re: Thoughts on Vista

Yeah. But as I said, just something that is a stop gap between getting the funds for a high power card. No way would I stick with the intergrated gfx.. but it is handy imo.

Re: Thoughts on Vista

About Vista...

Illustrator ran like crap on XP, runs like the wind on Vista. I like that. Already heard something whispered about better performance of those kind of apps, but didn't expect this. I have no idea wether it's true, but if it is MS might be moving towards kicking the legs out under Apple's graphic design chair. If they took the time, they could actually pull that off.

Running it on an AMD Athlon XP dual core 4200+ with gigs of ram. Some hiccups, but nothing putting me off so far...the most annoying thing is actually getting the Vista compatible drivers for your hardware, and patches for your sofware. Some shit won't run, like Nero.