I am a PC guy thinking about switching to the darkside. Yeah, yeah, I saw the commercials. Funny, but can someone tell me what it is really like?

How difficult is it to really get used to a completely, entirely different operating system and way of working?

I consider myself fairly adept at XP. I use my keyboard a lot, and value memorizing keystrokes.

Are the keystrokes intuitive, memorizeable?

Is not having a right-click as horrible as I imagine?

There's a lot of heat in this whole us vs. them thing between PC's and Mac's, and I'm not here to garner those comments. Anyone replying should be posting first-hand or close-hand knowledge of what they experienced or know about using OSX coming from the world of Windows. Easy? Doable? Worth it?

I will still probably run a Parallels Virtual Machine of XP on this thing for work-related things that I won't have on OSX, but for normal everyday work, et. al., I would anticipate using OSX for everything.

Or should I just go buy an ugly Dell?

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

It took me a day playing around on an ibook to get used to it, and I've used a PC all my life. Most of keyboard shortcuts are quite intuitive, just replace the Apple button with your Alt.

And you CAN keep your right click. Just plug in a USB 2-button/scroll-wheel mouse into the Mac. Coming from a PC user, that's one of the essential things you need for your transition.

You can run Parrallels or simply dual-boot Windows on your macbook.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

or you can hold down two fingers on the track pad, and click... does the same as a right click

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I was in the same boat as you holmes-I got a macbook black over the summer

just btw the macbook pro only really has a few different bells and whistles-and an upgradeable graphics card-I got mine for Music apps and shit and it does blaze

Only prob with mine was it had to go back to the tech center 2 times in the first month-but I think that was an atypical experience as many of my friends got new macs this past summer as well and didn't have half the problems

As far as the experience of switching-it's not bad and once you pick it up some of the things are a lot easier-it's just kind of annoying learning any new op system no matter how much better it is

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

Thanks for the great feedback.

I'm still not completely decided. However, stopped by the mac store this evening and had the wife give it a looksy. She says, "get it."

Now I just have to take the step over the line marked, "awkward" which I can't quite get over because of the move into the "unknown"... that feeling of defecting that which I know so well...

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I don't know anyone who's ever regreted the defection. You won't either!

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=alexfish333;400011]I was in the same boat as you holmes-I got a macbook black over the summer

just btw the macbook pro only really has a few different bells and whistles-and an upgradeable graphics card-I got mine for Music apps and shit and it does blaze

[/QUOTE]

Huge difference between the two now, the MacBook Pro has the Core 2 Duo chip in it...

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=Caley Martin;401016]Huge difference between the two now, the MacBook Pro has the Core 2 Duo chip in it...[/QUOTE]

Not a huge difference anymore.

So does the Macbook.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

Hooray-That's what I thought but didn't want to say so and be wrong...

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=alexfish333;404630]Hooray-That's what I thought but didn't want to say so and be wrong...[/QUOTE]

It was just announced and made available yesterday.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

im definetly giving poto sole responsibility when i buy my next computer. boy knows his shit.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=thesightless;405168]im definetly giving poto sole responsibility when i buy my next computer. boy knows his shit.[/QUOTE]

That's what I do... I know my shit

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I'd still go with the Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro, faster CPU speed, dedicated graphics and better heat dissapation... these things run so much cooler than the previous generation. They have wider grill vents in the back as well.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=Caley Martin;405423]I'd still go with the Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro, faster CPU speed, dedicated graphics and better heat dissapation... these things run so much cooler than the previous generation. They have wider grill vents in the back as well.[/QUOTE]

Obviously, if you are able to, then go Pro!

I cant wait to swap my MBP for the new one soon....

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I have come to realize that apple is now an overpriced PC.

good job apple. wait to people catch on. and all you will become is a software company.

tossers.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=asdf_admin;405781]I have come to realize that apple is now an overpriced PC.

good job apple. wait to people catch on. and all you will become is a software company.

tossers.[/QUOTE]

Like microsoft?

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

yes sir Mike. like Microsoft.

granted, they still have a huge plus in invention and style. they are still the best looking machines out there. Comparison wise, you can get a more powerful PC laptop for a lot cheaper. In addition over 75% of the applications that did run on the Motorola chip do not run exclusively on the Intel cheap. You gotta use Rosetta to execute those old programs. There is 25%-33% loss just to execute the program.

At this time there is no "large" reason to jump on the apple band wagon. Apple releases new products almost every or every two quarters, and some of the changes have been drastic.

my main point ... wait. I would not be surprised if a new version of OSX does run on PC machines, and you will not need to have an Apple to run it.

Mr. Mike does that sound like a fair analysis?

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

^^ so wrong.

OSX will always be Mac exclusive regardless of how many hackjobs are attempted and then thwarted.

With each Intel OSX 10.4 update, Rosetta has seen serious performance boosts and it can only get better from here on out with 10.5.

I'd argue some other shit, but I am lazy and don't feel like stirring shit and the whole old Mac vs. PC nonsense.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I am not a fortune teller, but i do know a few things to come...

1- Any applications that arent universal binary (intel compatible) within the next year will be ones that have no demand or practicality... If a software company wants to continue making money, then they will continue updating and improving their programming, simple as that.

2- Even if you feel that there is no large reason to jump on the apple bandwagon, LOTS of people are, and I dont know many people at all who go back to windows after owning a mac... not many at all.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

That is the thing with you hardcore apple fans ... you just can not admit defeat. Apple owns a very sample share of the market. Of course people are more willing to jump to Apple because it does run Windows. I guess you are missing my point. For the amount of money you spend on a system plus all the applications on a Apple, you really are paying 3 or 4 times less for equivlent performance on a PC.

If you want to pay for something that looks nice so be it. Have fun writing your check. :lol:

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

Paying for something nice AND useable is an entirely different thing though. The reason people stay with Mac after making the jump is 'cos they enjoy using it. And having a piece of hardware almost-fully functional with accompanying software makes for a nice change.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I dont give a shit how many more people use windows or PCs...

It's not a fucking battle, you can say you've won all you like!

I love using and supporting macs, and I have detested windows ever since making the switch. I don't work for apple or have any financial gain to make from them getting bigger and bigger. I'd be pleased if it happens, but thats about as far as it goes.

dont be such a fucking jew about shit, and look at the big picture

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=asdf_admin;406410]That is the thing with you hardcore apple fans ... you just can not admit defeat. Apple owns a very sample share of the market. Of course people are more willing to jump to Apple because it does run Windows. I guess you are missing my point. For the amount of money you spend on a system plus all the applications on a Apple, you really are paying 3 or 4 times less for equivlent performance on a PC.

If you want to pay for something that looks nice so be it. Have fun writing your check. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Admit defeat to what? Who cares about marketshare anyway? It's only been going up and up and up. For the amount of money you spend on a Mac, you get included Applications (that work seamlessly with one another) AND the complete solution in regards to included hardware (lots of I/O, gigabit ethernet, 802.11n wireless, serial ATA etc etc etc). Go look at your 3 to 4 times less costing PCs and see what is actually included. You may find out that to get the complete package will often cost you more than what is advertised on the sticker.

Does your $599 PC have that compared to a $599 Mac Mini?

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I went ahead and have ordered the 17" Mac Book Pro Core 2 Duo machine.

In pricing things out, a comparable Dell laptop came out to be $100 less. That is with an academic discount, though. Otherwise it's like $200-$300. Still not a huge amount based on what you get with the Mac.

I'm planning on running Parallels virtualization to maintain compatibility with my work world (Windows). If Parallels doesn't work, I'll probably go straight BootCamp, but am going to try to avoid it to start and see if Parallels can do what I need.

I don't mean to jump into the fray of what else has been posted here (re: Windows vs. Apple, etc.). I guess I'm just looking for something new, on my never-ending quest for more knowledge and learning. Mac OSX is sort of new territory. Plus, I get to run Windows and do what I need to do there.

I've yet to guess on whether Microsoft's final release of Vista is going to be too little, too late or whether it is going to be able to rescue them from becoming IBM.

Windows serves its purpose, and it gets the job done. So does Apple. In the end, it's how you want to approach your experience with your computer.

I think we're in a changing world. With the Linux desktop, OSX, and Windows as all viable options (some more than others, depending on your task) - people are pushing more towards: a) the web, and b) data ownership - meaning data formats that are "mine", and are transferrable between services. Ultimately if you look at it, life isn't about app lock-in, it's about data lock-in. As consumers, the more we demand our data - then it doesn't matter where or how we use the computer - as long as we have our data. I think the scarier scenario is not Microsoft vs. Apple - it's that Google's going to come from nowhere and own the world. They're essentially developing the services that Microsoft got blasted on - the "Hailstorm" initiative - where your data lives up in the sky, and you access it from anywhere. Wasn't it Sun who said the network is the computer? Google is going to be the computer.

Google's all fine and good... but no single entity with that much power can be good.

In the end, I chose Mac. I'm looking forward to learning it. Hopefully, I won't regret my decision. I'm neither a zealot for either side. I just want to enjoy my PC experience. The Mac is going to allow me to do enjoy both OSX and Windows, all on a very beautiful piece of machinery.

After using Vista at work for the past few months (RC1), I've been less than impressed. Sure, it has some nice features. But it's no game-changer in my book.

And it certainly isn't worth the $199 upgrade.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

Lol, i'll stick to my XP then. As for Macs....no-one has ever been able to give me a conclusive argument why I should turn to Apple if I intend to keep doing graphic design.

Here's your shot, Apple guys...I'm really dying to hear that reason which has never been given to me, other than that annoying unexplained 'dude...you should go Mac'.

Lines are open now....

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=futura;406666] I think we're in a changing world. With the Linux desktop, OSX, and Windows as all viable options (some more than others, depending on your task) - people are pushing more towards: a) the web, and b) data ownership - meaning data formats that are "mine", and are transferrable between services. Ultimately if you look at it, life isn't about app lock-in, it's about data lock-in. As consumers, the more we demand our data - then it doesn't matter where or how we use the computer - as long as we have our data. I think the scarier scenario is not Microsoft vs. Apple - it's that Google's going to come from nowhere and own the world. They're essentially developing the services that Microsoft got blasted on - the "Hailstorm" initiative - where your data lives up in the sky, and you access it from anywhere. Wasn't it Sun who said the network is the computer? Google is going to be the computer.

Google's all fine and good... but no single entity with that much power can be good.[/QUOTE]

Well said. Especially now that Apple is on Intel as well, these platform arguments will soon become moot point.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I went ahead and did it.

I'm sitting here now using my shiny new MacBook Pro to make this post.

I've spent just under a week with it now and I have to say that I'm really enjoying the experience and usability of OSX.

I have installed the trial version of Parallels Desktop for Mac and have tested a Windows XP install in it. It runs really well. I have even done some lightweight video editing in Sony Vegas under Windows and it works fine. For complicated real-time preview it stutters slightly, but is performant for most tasks. I'm not adverse to using BootCamp if I have to, but if I can get by with Parallels, I'd like to enjoy the ability to jump easily between worlds.

One thing I hear WIndows PC users worry about with the Mac is finding out that they want to do A, and that OSX just won't be able to do it. I have not run across any scenario that is like that, yet. I don't think I will. Certainly, there are applications that you may want on OSX, that may be PC only. That's sort of something you have to consider for yourself going into it. However, even for little "usability tweaks" that most power-users enjoy putting into place on their systems - OSX allows plenty of this. (See QuickSilver... (Collibri on Windows)...)

The ONLY "issue" I have so far to any extent is getting used to the keystroke differences - especially in text editing.

My background is software development, so writing code and using the keyboard heavily comes with the territory. Editing text under OSX can be challenging because the CTRL, ALT (option), and apple (command) keys all work slightly differently. It also seems that they can act differently in different applications. That drives me crazy.

For instance. In Microsoft Visual Studio (on Windows), SHIFT-CTRL-Left Arrow will select the first word to the left of the cursor. It typically stops at a space, or in Visual Studio - at a code element such as a bracket, or other syntax element of code. I like this.

On the Mac, each app uses the CTRL key differently. In some apps you may use CTRL-Left Arrow, in another ALT (option) Left Arrow.

I'm dealing, and it's not actually anything I hate so much I don't want to use OSX.

There is an application I found called "DoubleCommand" that remaps keys under OSX. However, after install it caused what is called a "kernel panic" in OSX. It's basically this beautiful screen that displays an error message in several languages that essentially states, "You're so hosed, I'm not booting."

At least the Windows BSOD is cryptic and contains information you can TRY to decipher.

Fortunately, there's a "safe mode" you can boot into and disable startup items in OSX.

Until I can get DoubleCommand working again I guess I'll be stuck with figuring out the strokes as per necessary.

Beyond my digression into keystroke minutae, the OSX operating system is rock-solid, apps launch super quick, and it is chock full of functionality and customizations.

Going back to XP feels like it did back when I found myself supporting that one-off "Windows 3.11 for Workgroups" machine that my uncle had and never wanted to upgrade because he was so cheap sort of thing.

The hardest thing to get used to - which I hated at first - but now like - is double-clicking in the window title bar. OSX = Minimize; Windows = Maximize/Restore toggle.

I find myself double-clicking in Windows on the title bar all the time - intending to minimize.

There are small differences between "how" you do things between the two that you end up being slightly annoyed with but then get used to. I've not gone philosophical on "why" Apple does it this way, and Windows that - but once I figure out how to do it in OSX it's easy to catch on and I mostly like how things have to happen. (Is this that hypnosis those "Mac people" are stuck in?)

Overall - great move. The machine itself rocks my world. The screen is so nice, beautiful quality. Graphics are simply stunning.

If you need Windows, Parallels holds up - and runs super fast. If you need it for general OS support - I would say Windows runs "95-98% native" speed (that you'd expect straight on the metal). That is also just with Parallels giving Windows a single core of the dual-core CPU.

If anyone has cool recommendations of good OSX software related to music, etc. let me know. I know of the biggies, and of course I can go buy Ableton, etc. But any freeware type synthesis stuff out there that isn't as cryptic as "pd", etc.

If you're even remotely considering the jump to Apple, yet feel like you're "betraying" Windows, or feel like you're doing something dirty - don't. Just make the jump.

It's better.

And, I didn't drink any kool-aid, and I am definitely not a zealot (like those Apple store folks... Caley - no offense... seriously, the Apple employees at my local are a bit too robotic and freaking happy for me.)

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[quote]why does apple have one mouse button? because the users could not handle two buttons. [/quote]have fun paying for your over priced pc.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

Hehe, actually wasn't too overpriced. I was able to take advantage of an academic discount, which brought it to be within $100 of an equally spec'ed Dell.

Even without the discount, it was within $300.

Based on UltraSharp screens I've seen on Dell's, I'd have to say this LCD is better - and for someone doing graphics it's easily worth the extra $.

I think the price gap between the two types of platforms has narrowed drastically.

I read somewhere Apple may be thinking of using AMD's chips in their stuff too - which could help out on price even more. Who knows.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

i am just mad at apple for selling over priced pcs. that is all. i wanted one so bad, now i am not even interested. eck. i can get you a pc twice as powerful as a mac, and fully loaded for 1000 less.

that is my problem. (here on they refers to apple) they hurt me a bit. was excited about the new apples, and now the breaks downs and everything is ... well a pc with a nice os that works. but the guts is what i loved about apple. the raw wet pant dripping power.

i am angry my friends. PC 4 LIFE.

and mike should not have job if apples were so great.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[QUOTE=asdf_admin;415139]i can get you a pc twice as powerful as a mac, and fully loaded for 1000 less. [/QUOTE]

mac pro vs. dell with xeon config?

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[quote=asdf_admin;415139]i am just mad at apple for selling over priced pcs. that is all. i wanted one so bad, now i am not even interested. eck. i can get you a pc twice as powerful as a mac, and fully loaded for 1000 less.

that is my problem. (here on they refers to apple) they hurt me a bit. was excited about the new apples, and now the breaks downs and everything is ... well a pc with a nice os that works. but the guts is what i loved about apple. the raw wet pant dripping power.

i am angry my friends. PC 4 LIFE.

and mike should not have job if apples were so great.[/quote]

I understand your pain. I decided to not be angry about it and just bought one. :)

Now I can move on with my life with a pure-sex, brushed aluminum power house. Unix under the hood. OSX simplicity for normal stuff. Parallels and Windows for work.

The nice thing is, Digweed mixes sound nice hooked up to my speakers coming from my PC and my Mac. Diggers doesn't discriminate the pleasure - I think that's something we both can agree on and enjoy.

:)

If you get one, let me know. I've got a soft spot in my heart for the PC - as a hardware platform - I am totally with you - the customization and tweaking you can do is phenomenal. But when you add the OS in as a factor... I'm beginning to think that BillG is going to have a difficult time going forward. Time will tell if Microsoft can resurrect itself like IBM did and keep itself from becoming irrelevant.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[quote=Caley Martin;415164]mac pro vs. dell with xeon config?[/quote]

When I did my price comparisons on Dell, I think I was doing top-of-the-line Inspiron laptops with Core 2 Duo's (which had just come out on the Dell platform), with the same amount of RAM, etc.

Not everything was equal comparison, like on the Dell - maybe I was able to get a larger hard drive than what the Mac offered - I can't recall. But smallish details like that (when hard drive size wasn't part of the driving factor...) I sort of wrote off.

But in the end, the price I had was literally $110 less than the academic discount for the Apple (which I disclose because I was taking advantage of that price benefit for myself. I have to admit, the academic pricing on the Mac did influence my decision, I'm not sure if I would pay another $200 on top for the Mac... I may have been swayed by a nice Vaio or something...)

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

YAY Futura! Very glad to see you enjoying your mac! :)

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

macbook pro core 2 duo is the bomb yo!!!

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

I´m planning on buying a new iMac the 17 inch one, its going to be all new for me commig from a pc back ground, and it will only cost me like 100 bucks more compared to a pc. Can you mac freaks tell me what the basic things I have to download?

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

firewall, anti-virus, and windows xp.

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[quote=asdf_admin;423106]firewall, anti-virus, and windows xp.[/quote]

:lol:

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[quote=asdf_admin;423106]firewall, anti-virus, and windows xp.[/quote]

Touche :)

Re: MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo?

[quote=Troklo;423092]I?m planning on buying a new iMac the 17 inch one, its going to be all new for me commig from a pc back ground, and it will only cost me like 100 bucks more compared to a pc. Can you mac freaks tell me what the basic things I have to download?[/quote]

What kind of stuff do you want to do?